Rose Kaz: The Intersection of Tech and Creativity
Rose Kaz joins the podcast to share how we can bring together creativity and tech.
A visionary leader, expert connector and advocate for Women’s Rights, Rose is passionate about creating a more equitable future for ALL by emulating that world within the brands she builds.
We discuss how we can all adopt more creativity into our lives, create the environments we need for creative flow, and her love for podcasting (and Portland!).
Check out her podcast “Money, Sex, and Politics”, as well as her digital ecosystem LBI Digital.
TRANSCRIPT
Intro
Welcome to Humanizing Tech, a PDXWIT podcast. We interview people to dig below the surface of their achievements and challenges showcasing the story behind the story. We believe that focusing on the person and humanizing their lived experiences will help us shape the future of tech.
Anusha Neelam:
Before we get started, I want to acknowledge the land we are on, wherever we're tuning in from. PDXWIT recognizes the ongoing violence, trauma, and erasure indigenous Oregonians and Native American face. We are recording from Portland today. Portland rests on the traditional village sites of the Multnomah, Kathlamet, Clackamas, Chinook, Tualatin Kalapuya, Molalla and many other tribes who made their homes along the Columbia River. We endeavor to have this acknowledgement be more than just words. The tech industry is building the future of our world, and it is up to us to ensure that there is a future for all. To find out more about how we're supporting the future of indigenous Oregonians and Native Americans, please visit our website. We'll add a link in the show notes as well.
Hello everyone. Welcome back to another episode of Humanizing Tech. This is your host, Anusha, coming to you on this, uh, very fall crisp day from Portland. Um, I hope you've all been doing well. Thanks for taking the time to tune in to what I feel like is gonna be a really informative and engaging episode. Um, so without further ado, I'm just gonna go ahead and intro our guest that we have with us today, who is Rose Kaz. Rose is a seasoned brand specialist and a visionary leader who believes that when women have what they need, the entire world will flourish. Love that. Rose is passionate about creating a more equitable future by weaving this vision into the very fabric of the brand she builds. Rose's diverse career includes creative direction for renowned brands, and forging connections with thought leaders and industry disruptors. In 2014, she started a woman-owned production company, and in 2017, her passion project LBI digital evolved into a powerful, inclusive digital ecosystem that's changing the world through new leadership. Phew! That sounds like some real superhero stuff. <laugh>. So, welcome, Rose. Thank you for joining us.
Rose Kaz:
Thank you for being here. It's always so weird to hear like a bio. I'm like, I wrote that, I think, but man, I wanna be her friend. Oh, that's me. Okay. <laugh>.
AN:
Well, I love that. I love that you feel that way. Um, today
RK:
I do, you know, it's, it's a, it's a journey.
AN:
<laugh> <laugh>. Well, um, I know that I gave our listeners a high level intro and it's always an like an interesting thing to give, like someone else's intro for them. So I really want to get kicked off today as we do on all of our episodes, just by having you introduce yourself and just sharing a little bit about your background.
RK:
Totally, totally. Um, thank you for that, Anusha, really happy to be here. Thank you for the land acknowledgement and just thank you for the woRK: that PDXWIT does. You know, it's really important, I think for the world, but definitely for women, for non-binary folks, for people who have been othered most of our lives, to have space to expand on what we know is possible. I'll get emotional a bunch on this <laugh> interview, I'm sure, because, um, I, you know, I'm a person. I, I, I've often been told, like, don't take it personal. I'm like, how am I supposed to take it like a lamp, you know, <laugh>, like, like a table. So that said, um, I'm very, I'm a very feely feeler. Um, I'm a business woman through and through my first business, I was selling Bubblicious Bubble Gum under my bunk bed, and my mom found my little, um, like a little safe that I was stashing my, my coin and my bubblegum in. And she's like, what's this? I was like, oh, it's my business. And she was like, no, no, no, I'm your mother. It's my business. I was like, no. Right. But it's like my business. She was like, what?
<laugh>
I'm like, yeah, like, you know, you could buy one pack of Bubblicious for 89 cents, but if you get like a five pack, it's only a dollar 50. And suddenly I was very popular on the playground. So, um, you know, always been thrifty in that way, but particularly, um, one of the things I just wanna highlight that I probably didn't write in my fancy bio is that over the course of being a woman in business, and especially in the last three years, I've seen just how important it is for us to unite even in our differences. Um, to really be able to amplify our message of unity, right? And, and to really use tech for good. That's like my flag I've been flying for a while, is like, we have all these awesome tools that connect us, but it seems like lately they've really been dividing us in ways that are just like super sad. So how can we keep engaging with them feeling the feels, but also like using it for good, you know?
AN:
Yeah. Yeah. I love that. And actually, um, and I, and I, I wanna come to really talking more about like the work that you do and just like your career and everything. Um, the thing that I wanted to start off first, um, kind of aligns with what you're talking about in terms of just like using technology for good, but also I think bringing that like mental health component, which I know, um, you have talked about just like how significant, um, and important you feel that is for, for you. Um, and I'm curious to know, especially in these very interesting times that we're in, uh, where there's like political tensions and then there's like the global just climate and obviously events and conflicts like the one that is going on in Israel right now. How do you feel like, I, I guess it's like a two part question. How do you effectively navigate like the dual demands of being productive and being someone who has so much going on, um, and wanting to be on top of all of that, but then also like holding space to take care of, of yourself when we have so many complexities going on around us and just like the mental challenges that can bring up?
RK:
Yeah. Well, first thing I'll say is I do not have the answers, and I am totally making up this as we go along. I don't know if we can curse on this podcast, but I'm definitely making it up as I go. But I also will say that I have leaned into community. I've leaned into leaders particularly, um, bipoc femme forward leaders that have said, you know, one woman I work with Ber-Henda Williams in Detroit, um, like she specifically works with empaths. I'm a big feely empath, right? I'm also a business woman that likes nice shoes and I like to drive a cute car and, you know, yeah, eventually, I guess I'll pay my student loans, but like, not today, <laugh>, right? So it's like the first answer is just, I, I, I know how much I want and have to give to the world.
Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. And also sometimes I just need to like, lay on my yoga mat, not even do yoga and just ugly cry for a couple hours before I even like step out on my pajamas, forget stepping out into the world. Like that's real. And that's, you know, from a queer Jewish woman's perspective in the last month during the Israeli Palestine conflict, like war AKA war is that like I I actually see family on both sides, right? Like the story of the relationships there, like the actual story is there is relation, and that's saddening to me that family is fighting family. I also have family in Ukraine that happens to live on the Ukrainian side of a border that once was, you know, like the Russian Ukrainian border. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> also cousins, right? So it's, to me, I view this all of these conflicts as like, we all live in the same house and we have to figure out how to get along.
I don't have a solution for that, but because I wanna try every day to maybe come up with one collaboratively, I realize it's so important to feel Mm-Hmm. And not like, you know, just be like, keep going. Right? Like toxic capitalism wants us to just keep doing our job and put your head down and get to work. And that just doesn't work. I don't think it ever has worked, but I think in a post covid quote unquote, I think we're post covid, um, knock on wood, that we all had an opportunity to, to take a look at what works and what doesn't, even if we didn't want to. And I know certainly I learned like my working patterns, even though I've worked for myself, they weren't healthy, they weren't healthy for me, they weren't healthy for my team, and they weren't healthy for the world.
And even as I was mounting LBI into the digital space mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, I was adopting a lot of those old patterns like get on the hamster wheel and just grind, grind, grind and grind, and you'll rest later, or you'll take your, you know, your break when you can. And I burnt out and I realized like, I don't want to do that anymore. And so I think the biggest thing I can suggest to people is owning our own tempo. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> is so, so important. And then we can show up if we want, if we can't show up and need another 10 days off of social media. I mean, I know we have to go to work, right? But just like, as hard as we want to go is as soft as we have to be to ourselves.
AN:
I love that. I love that. And you, you know, in, in terms of just like those, those boundaries and like taking care of yourself in the ways that you're explaining where you just kind of have to take that time and like slow that tempo down, slow that pace down. I guess I'm curious, like, and, and this doesn't like necessarily have to be like advice that you're giving, but just more of like what you might be integrating into your own life. Um, but I know for a lot of our listeners who might be working in the tech industry where it is notoriously very fast paced, um, or even just like in any other industry where you're kind of expected to show up every day and have like a set amount of, um, hours you have to work. Like in what ways do you build in those like boundaries with just like that like work-life balance, but also in regards to just like the technology and the tools that we use every day to stay ultra engaged in like, what's going on in the world. Like, um, just curious to see like how you approach that.
RK:
Yeah, for sure. One thing I noticed is that like using, you know, being on podcasts for example, or, you know, adding something to my social, I'm like, Hey, it's me. This is what I'm up to. Or anything that is like, let's just say like generative or, or, or putting stuff out there, let's just leave it blanket, however that might look for people, right? I've noticed that it takes a lot more energy out of me than it has in the past. And so let's say like, you know, I've got Zoom calls and, and pods and things like that, starting at 9:00 AM on any given day, I wake up somewhere between like five and 6:00 AM so that I could have like a two to three hour buffer that like has me ground into my own space, my own mental capabilities for the day. And, you know, Tuesday might look different than Friday, and Monday might look completely different than Wednesday.
And I'm okay with that. I used to not be, I used to be like, this is how I do it every single day. Like, this is the square, this is the square, this is the square. Mm-Hmm. And this new approach I have is a little, a little more fluid <laugh>. A lot more fluid. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. Um, and the best I can do is, is carving that space out for me. And like I said, sometimes like I get to it, I get, I do my, like, I do this like somatic yoga practice, it's called The Class. It's super cool. You can get it online. It's like my favorite thing to do in the morning, but sometimes I don't, I don't even do it. Like, I just list, like I listen to their teaching. Other people are like in the, their real space, like working out and I hear 'em, but I get it, like through some osmosis, I don't know, maybe not <laugh> or sometimes I just straight up just like, you know, read my meditation and, and Jo and do my journaling and that's it. Like that is it. But either way, I carve out this time so that before I step into the world, I can at least be grounded. Because I do feel like, especially in, in tech, right? Like somebody said this to me over lunch the other day and said, yeah, but you can't really, uh, what were we talking about? Oh, we were talking about writing for grants. And I was like, I got really good at writing for grants. Mm-Hmm. Uh, really out of a need to like feed myself and fund LBI, right? Like, how do I make this thing go? And he was like, yeah, but you can't write grants for tech because tech moves too fast, right? And by the time that like the tech, by the time the grant comes around, you've probably innovated like five times from what you've written for. And I was like, oh contraire mon frere, like, actually, I don't wanna be the unicorn. I wanna be a zebra because I wanna be sustainable. And so I stopped iterating. Like when I first went to market with LBI digital platform, we were like, we're gonna do this, we're gonna do that, and we're gonna do this. And I was so burnt out, my team was burnt out. They didn't even like me. I didn't even like me. None of nothing was working, right? And so I just slowed, I just slowed way down. Now I know like people working in agency or working in office, like might not be able to say like, you know, dear fearless leader, I don't like the tempo, I'm gonna slow down. Right? Like, that's not always an option. And is there ways that we can advocate for ourselves? Are there ways that like where we can carve out space? I just went to this really cool workshop that Tech Association of Oregon did. It was a two-part series on making work, work. And while it was totally geared towards like hr, you know, leaders and stuff like that, I went because I wanna learn how to better organize teams and also organize myself. And the reason I'm bringing this up, Anusha, is because they brought up this really cool point of both psychological safety in a work environment. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> also like having space and time for people to be humans, right? <laugh>, which is like so wild to think about that we might need that at work. That's what you do at home or that's what you do like at the park or at the restaurant or at the bar, right? But like, how do you make work work in that way? And it was such, it was, TAO always does such good programming, but it was like so helpful for me to validate that like, okay, I was totally doing it wrong before, but I was doing it like I was taught. Right? Like of the machine, of like, keep working. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. And it's good to know that there are leaders out there, there are businesses that are interested in this concept to, you know, carve out and hopefully it invites employees to become advocates for themselves, for their teams. And then leaders are speaking that same sort of language so that we innately evolve into that kind of like working tempo. Right?
AN:
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that makes me hopeful to hear that that was a conversation that they chose to have and that it sounds like was a very meaningful conversation. Um, because I do feel like the way, like I think the pandemic has changed the way that people work obviously in like several different ways. The most notable being that there is more remote work, um, than there has been in the past. But I also feel like this concept of working around just people needing to like just be people. Like we've always been expected to work. Like we were just robots and like we don't have thoughts and feelings and things and emotions that we're going through. But I do think that, that I, I've, I've really been hoping and like wishing for this to be a larger part of the conversation. And we actually had a guest, um, on this podcast, like a co like a couple months ago who came on with like, and just kind of talked about the experiences of being someone who's neurodivergent in like the tech space and, and you know, just the challenges that come with that and the accommodations that are obviously helpful and like, just would like, just go a long way in terms of being able to like, feel like you're able to show up, um, authentically and also not be feeling like you're just having to work at this like, incredible pace. And I just think that's like a really valuable insight.
RK:
Absolutely. And if I can just stack one more thing on that. There's a really great article maybe within the last two or three months out in Forbes, and it highlights these two women. They're both business partners and life partners, definitely women in tech. Um, Chani Nicholas and Sonya Passi. Sonya's company is called FreeFrom. And it supports survivors to, to enter back into the world, into the workspace. Um, and then Chani's platform, it's, uh, like an as astrology app, right? Mm. It's really interesting that both of their companies have seen in the last two years of all this crazy, like covid-y post covid, whatever's happening with the workforce marketplace, right? Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, both of their companies have increased by 50% in each year. And here's why. They do 4-day work weeks. They have unlimited like parental, like if you need to like go take care of your kid, right? Mm-Hmm. Or if you need to take a couple days off for your period, like if you need to deal with being human, you're not getting pinged like you day of like being sick. Right? Wow. Yeah. Which is amazing. And they're just the list of, of what it is to work for them. And by the way, they, they pay everybody at least $80K a year, right? Oh yeah. And with that model, they've become 50% more successful twice in a row, two years in a row. I'm like, yes, girl, go ahead. Right? I love that. Yeah. Look, they're changing the model of like toxic capitalism. What could that do? Suddenly everybody wants to go to work and do a better job. Amazing.
AN:
I love that. I love that. And yeah, and I, and I just hope that those sorts of organizations with that kind of a blueprint who can, you know, obviously you're talking about just like the improvements that they've seen and like how much they've been able to grow. And I just like, I hope that those stories become like, not so far, like, you know, not so few and far between in terms of just like how much people talk about them. And I, and I think that is like, there's, there's so much of even just like the four day work week conversation, like a lot of these sorts of things that, um, have been brought up. But I don't feel like a lot of companies have really taken it upon themselves to like really action around those sorts of, uh, improvements that are, have clearly proven to be beneficial, um, for everybody.
RK:
Absolutely. Absolutely.
AN:
Um, well, switching gears a little bit, um, I know that you're part of both like, tech communities and then it also seems like creative communities as well. Um, I'm curious to know, like why you feel like it's important for those communities to come together and like what, um, you feel like are just like unique contributions that both of those communities can make in the other, in terms of just like the industry and, and, and as a whole
RK:
Anusha. I love this question so much. Thank you for asking me
AN:
This <laugh>. Of course. Yeah.
RK:
Okay. So there's, there's part of it that my particular brain, neurodivergent brain is like, you know, I like to say I travel at the speed of hype, like I'm oftentimes ahead of my own self, but that's because I use both sides of my brain. Like I'm a creative tech person, like, right? Yeah. Some people excel in tech, some people excel in creative, some people love math, some people hate math. Like, so what I've found in my career is that when I, when I listen, I don't know if I can ever balance it right. But when I <laugh>, when I try to really, you know, do the proverbial rub the belly, pat the head, kind of tempo with creative and tech in mind, I'm most fulfilled. And what I think that looks like for the larger populace, whether it's our own amazing creative and tech proficient community here in Portland or beyond, I think it, it really points to innovation, right? Creatives are notorious. We're coming up with like unique solutions outta the box thinking like, we're wild, we're weird, we, we get zany, you know? Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. Um, but that's because we like to solve for x in like the most bizarre way, right? And then technologists are constantly trying to look at like, oh, but how can we, you know, how can we innovate? How can you use these tools and Right. Let's just break down tech, tech is really just a way of doing something, right? Like technology used to be like a wagon with like oxen, right? Okay. So luckily we don't have to take, take the Oregon trail anymore, right? <laugh>, and we have cars, or we have bicycles, right? We have the tram, we have ways to get around. But, but ultimately thinking about tech as just a, a tool, right? And I, I know many fellow technologists that are just like, okay, how can we expand on this tool? How can we make this tool better? Right? Everything that's in, in UI and UX is just making it better for the user. And so when we bring together creative tech, it's like awesome. Like we have out of the box thinkers filling the room if we have a creative tech party, right? And it is my goal, I know to have like a couple really great creative tech parties here in Portland in the months and, and years ahead. But having that sort of innovative spirit and, and ideation that can happen between those two communities, I think we end up seeing that we're much more similar than we are different. And what can we do to solve some pretty big problems if we utilize that collaborative circular model?
AN:
I, I think that's, yeah, that's a great, um, I don't know, outlook on, on that. And I'm, and I'm also curious too, I, I guess as someone who has like a job in the tech industry, which is not necessarily, wouldn't be considered like a creative job, like my job is to kind of like manage the work and manage the, the software being built. Um, but I feel like one thing that I always wonder is like the, the, what you're explaining about like what creatives bring to the table and what technologists can bring to the table and how that like seamless relationship can, can work to produce some really great products and some really great innovation. I'm someone who, again, like is, is not necessarily, wouldn't consider myself a creative, but feel like I could get a lot of fulfillment from being someone who's able to exercise more creative aspects of my role or bring a little bit like of that into my life just to inspire me and motivate me to think in different ways and unique ways. Um, I'm curious how you feel like people that are maybe in my shoes can try to like adopt a little bit more of that into their lives and like really bring that creativeness into what they're doing in their day to day if it doesn't entail that already.
RK:
Yeah, great question. Well, okay, so I tend to think everyone is creative in one way or another, right? And I don't mean like get out your coloring tools and go with Yeah. <laugh>. Like, and in fact, like any type A therapist is like, have you ever tried art therapy? Like, go draw something. And I'm like, are you kidding? Like, I'm an artist. Like this is what I like, I am, it is in my blood, right? Uhhuh, <affirmative>, <laugh>. So I, I know that perhaps like my saying this is with an extreme bias of like, it's just always been how I am, but I also think that we, we, part of the way that we're all creative is how we solve for problems in unique ways, right? And so thinking creatively is one way, right? Um, enjoying and, and interacting with like our natural environment I think is one of the things that can not only like reset nervous systems, but also allow us to like, feel inspired by our environment to maybe solve whether it's just something at, at work, you know, I gotta figure this thing out. I gotta crack this code before I sign off for the day. Yeah. Or just to, you know, reapproach something that feels challenging is with a creative solution. So that's why I like to say is I think everyone is creative. I also think that oftentimes, um, in the way that, you know, our world likes to have boxes be checked or put, you know, like put boxes around things so our brains can better understand it. This, I think sometimes draw like drains creativity even out of creative people. Like I know for sure in the last three years of trying to get LLBI up and mm-hmm. <affirmative> into the world. I had so much like admin stuff and non-creative work and not even technical work, right? Like just administrative work, right? And sure, okay, we're using Google and we're using tech tools, but to me, admin work is like the most creative sucking work ever. And it doesn't leave me inspired to like get up and do the work again tomorrow. Right? And so what I had to figure out is how can I remain creative within tasks that are really boring to me or aren't fulfilling? And so what I end up doing is I, like, I play my Nina Simone or like, I make sure that, you know, I am properly fed, I have the right nutrients, and I've taken my medicine and my brain is like in the zone. I try the best to get into a creative flow. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> and an environment that feels supportive even when I have tasks that are like very not creative. <laugh>
AN:
Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> play some good music. Yeah. I love that. I, yeah. Yeah.
RK:
And also surrounding ourselves right in like, community of people who are, who are creative, even if we feel we may not, because I know like the simple, you know, os again, the osmosis idea can really inspire people and I love that.
AN:
Yeah. No, no, I think that's, that's great. I, I get a chance to, you know, in my day to day get a chance to work with designers and I obviously don't get to do that kind of work, but I feel like the, you know, I've tried to think of creative ways for me to like just be exposed to art and like, fashion and other things that really are able to, you know, enhance that like, ability for me to be able to weigh in on some of that creative work that they are doing. So I feel like there's, there's definitely ways to bring that into, I feel like any job, even if that doesn't, um, have that in terms of like the job description itself. Um, but yeah, I love that. Um, I know that you also have your own podcast and, and we've talked actually about doing like some sort of a PDXWIT like cross collaboration with your podcast. Um, but I know that you're a really big podcast enthusiast and I'm super curious to know like, how you got into that and like, just like the, the kinds of stuff that you like to bring into to your conversations.
RK:
For sure. Okay. I <laugh> I love podcasting so much. And what's so funny is years ago, like 10 years ago, a partner of mine was like, oh yeah, we're gonna do this podcast. It's gonna be so cool. And I was like, what is even a podcast? And, and I was just like, who even cares? Like, you know, I just, I, I don't know, I totally poo-pooed it, right? And then all of a sudden, you know, for 10 years <laugh>, it has amply, you know, grown in popularity and accessibility. And I think that's one of the coolest parts about it, right? Is that, I mean, it's internet radio, right? Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, you create your own channel on the internet, talk about tech for good, so long as the messaging is kind and fair and benevolent to the people, right? Like, we don't need podcast channels amped up that are hurtful, hateful, and sure.
Spreading lies, swipe left on that, right? <laugh>. Um, but yeah, the, the LBI digital podcast, Money, Sex and Politics, is the joy of my life right now. Talk about finding a creative lane. Like I was, I was working with Ber-Henda, the woman I mentioned, uh, who's based in Detroit, and I was like, girl, like I cannot keep on doing all this. Like, you know, the startup mode, like you gotta wear all the hats and you are like just waiting for the flywheel to catch. And so she was the one that said, well, you need to go produce something. And I said, like, what? And she's like, I mean, literally, I was like, just tell me I'll do it. Whatever you tell me, I'll do it. And she's like, yeah, you need a podcast. You need a show like the Rose Show. Like, we know this has to happen.
I'm like, yeah, but I mean, what am I even gonna talk about? What? Like, money, sex and politics? And she was like, uh, yes, that's exactly what you're gonna call it, we're gonna talk about. And I was like, awesome. And so we're, right now, I think we're on episode six of season two, um, talking with, you know, thought leaders, industry disruptors, business activists around how we create equity, right? And for all of our listeners, she's, he's they's, them’s like, when I talk about equity, when I talk about women forward stuff, when I talk about a matriarchy, I mean that in a way that is inclusive for all of us to do better. You mentioned in my, my intro, my bio, right? I believe when women are fully supported, everyone else gets fully supported. There's stats on this that a lot of times when women excel, we invest straight back into our communities, right? And so again, that particular model, um, but the podcast has been so fun, really talking to women individually, you know, like we don't talk about money, sex and politics. In every episode we speak about money on one, we get into sex on another, okay. And politics on the next episode. But it's interesting when we think about technology, right? Mm-Hmm, <affirmative>, how can we, for example, build tech-quity, right? Equity using tech. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> when it comes to finding resources around money and funding. One example I'll give you is I have this spreadsheet of grants that are specific to women owned businesses. It's passed around. Like, I didn't start the spreadsheet. I don't know who started it, but it's been passed. A couple women have sent it to me. I'm like, oh yeah, I already have this. Right? And it's so interesting, Anusha, that this is not like a, a simple resource online. It's just like an interoffice memo, right? And one could say, you know, there's, there's places like, hello Alice, there's GoFundMe, there's different ways to dig into that, but most of those resources cost money, right? Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. And you have to like, buy the book to get the thing or whatever. It's part of like a sales funnel. This is like a Google doc that women are just sharing these resources and I'm like, oh my God, how amazing. Right? Yeah. What if the internet was so made it so easy to find these resources versus you have like a whole research project on it. So that's the kind of stuff when we talk about money, we talk about financial racism, we talk about the, the history of money that has not really been inclusive at all. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. And so what I firmly believe is we're not gonna wait for anybody to open the door. We're gonna, we're gonna open it, and then we're gonna be like, come on. Right? And so when we talk about money, that's what we're getting at there. When we talk about sex, certainly in season two especially, we're getting into a little bit more of the boomchickawawa. But I really wanted to start with an academic approach. I wanted to talk about, um, we talked with Dr. Sarah Luna, who is an anthropologist of sex and mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, we got really nerdy and academic about sex and who has studied gender and anatomy and the history of, you know, female bodies has primarily been male people. And so what does that look like for our right bodily autonomy? Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> all the way up to our most recent episode on sex with Bryony Cole, who's a really awesome thought leader in the space of sex tech. And we're not just talking about like sex with robots. I mean, sure that could be part of it, but it's more about, you know, how we utilize <laugh>, our, our little computers, our smartphones, right? The access information about healthcare, about reproductive rights. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> to know, you know, what is on the bill in the next election and who thinks what about it by way of our technology, right? So that's sex tech, and that's the kind of stuff we get into. We'll get, we'll, we'll probably have a steamer episode here and there, but really I'm not, you know, that's not what I'm here for. I'm here for the educational pieces and to really highlight thought leaders and industry disruptors. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. And then of course, the last piece politics, right? Um, as we know <laugh> 2024, we're getting into a another political season that's gonna be really Interesting. Mm-hmm <affirmative> and I have been for years, I mean, student council president, okay? Like, I have always thought that it's really important to reach across the aisle to have discourse to, to, to understand that like, this idea is not the idea that we'll win, right? Like, we have to collaborate. And so the political conversations we have, while I haven't gotten a politician yet, mm-Hmm, <affirmative>, um, I have definitely spoken with bipoc women who are interested in new ways of leadership. And that in itself is political, right? And so just activating our, uh, our potentiality in the political space, even if that just means more education, right? Mm-hmm. <affirmative> all the way on up to can, do you want to run for city council? Can you run for state legislator? You know, uh, Tamara Johnson-Shealey, who has run for Georgia Senate five times, bless her heart, and she's gonna run again. And she comes from the beauty and barber industry, so, you know, you know, she has heard a story or two and can relate to the people. And so it's just so fascinating to hear all of these thought leaders talk about these particular topics, because I really do fundamentally think that conversations are the sort of jump off point to changing things because when people hear ideas and can relate to them, they get inspired and then they go activate.
AN:
That's amazing. I, yeah, I absolutely love that. And I, I have listened to your podcast and I just, I, I love the different topics that you're covering and the ways in which you're bringing in like women to talk about these topics that you feel really strongly about. And I, I just think it's a great, great podcast. Um, and I'm so happy to hear that you are enjoying podcasting. I mean, I love podcasting myself. I find this being, um, a bit of my creative outlet because I get to not just amplify voices, but also just really thinking about like someone's background and like, what I would really wanna learn from them and what I feel like is like super great about the work that they're doing. And that just feels really good in addition to it being this like, creative outlet. So, um, really glad that you found that. And also just like, yeah, love the different aspects of it that you're covering as well.
RK:
Thank you. Was there a favorite episode that you listened to?
AN:
Um, you know, I listened to it a little bit ago, and, um, I need to, I'll, I'll get back to you. Like, I, um, yeah,
RK:
No worries. I didn't mean to put you on the spot. I'm just always, I always love to hear people's, like what they gravitated to and, and what sort of like was compelling to them.
AN:
Yeah. I think it's just like, even the, the descriptions that you're giving now about the different, um, things that you talk through with your guests. I just think it's like conversations. I mean, podcasts are, so, there's, there's so many podcasts out there. Like I feel like there's a lot of content being made around podcasts and, um, obviously people have like, their different podcasts that they have on their playlist that they listen to on a drive home or whatever. But I think that there's like some of the topics that you cover and like the level of detail that you get into, uh, about that I just think is like stuff that I haven't really heard anywhere else. And I just think it would be so interesting for like our listeners, you know, if you're interested, obviously we'll link that in our show notes as well. But, um, to just take a listen to it, because I think it's so relevant to, I think a lot of things that people are experiencing. And I find for me, like podcasts can be a way to feel not so isolated because you're really getting an opportunity to hear somebody else's story about a topic that, you know, they find interesting to share and like experiences that they're going through. And I think just in the world that we live in today, like I think podcasts are a great way, whatever you connect with, like, whatever you're into, like to really just like, be able to turn that on and feel like, oh, I have a very similar experience to the thing that this person is describing, or, I've always wondered about that, but I've just never wanted to ask anyone because I was like, too shy to do that, or, or whatever. I think it, it's just a great outlet, so. Totally. Yeah.
RK:
I, I couldn't really, I couldn't, I couldn't agree more because that relation piece, right? Yeah. Even if, you know, whatever variation of of internetting or lockdown or the world kind of going forward in, in strange ways, it gives us this way to connect. And I think that's the most important thing of our humanity is that we, we, we actually share it. None of us <laugh> we can't, we did not come up in a silo. And it's not good for us to stay in one.
AN:
No, no, not at all. Um, and yeah, I, I guess you, you did bring up also just like the equity work that you're doing in, in tech. And I'm curious, uh, when it comes to the work that you're doing in building those bridges, um, and promoting equity in tech, like how do you go about measuring, and this, this is a little bit of a, you know, tricky question, but just, you know, to whatever extent that you can, how do you measure the success or the impact of those initiatives, um, that you're working on? 'cause that is a hard thing to, to measure sometimes. <laugh>.
RK:
Yeah. I'm laughing because my short answer is I don't, because when I go to measure it, I'm like, oh, is this even doing anything? Like, does it even matter? You know? Um, and that I think is more of like the startup, like, ugh, I can't, I don't know, is it working? Is it not working? But what I'll say, I'll say two things. One is, um, the value, or, or rather the reflected value that I hear from people like you just mentioned about the podcast, or people who've attended my live panel discussions, or people who have been on the Backstage Pass, which is our, like digital platform where people hang out, right? Have said to me in one way or another over the years that like, wow, this really made me feel included, or I hadn't even thought about advocating for myself in this way, you know? And me and the true creative side of my brain just gets the mush and it's like, oh, oh, thank you. Yay. Like, this is connecting the connected tissue of our humanity. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then like the business brain is like, oh, I should like go ask them for a testimonial or, you know, like, I should get some stats on this kind of thing. And so I'm very much in the middle space of figuring out like how I know that it's moving the needle besides just not just 'cause that's really imperative is those, those verbal acknowledgements. And, and it, honestly, it's the fuel that actually keeps me going. And the tricky part of that, I'd say Anusha, is that like, when I feel like it's not working from a fiscal perspective, right? Like, okay, um, oh my gosh, I'm gonna keep this thing going, but then I have a conversation with somebody who shares how deeply, you know, this blog entry or this community or this piece of technology has affected them. I'm like, okay, well then I'm, I'm, I'm back in, right? And mm-Hmm, <affirmative>, it'd be different if I got like maybe one of those memos every, you know, blue Moon, but I get them pretty consistently. And so that keeps, keeps me fueled, right? Yeah. I, I definitely am eager, and it's part of my work right now in, in being based out of Upstart Collective. There's a lot of, you know, tech guys here, which is I'll, I'll, I'll, if I get a chance, I'd like to speak to the choice to work out of this particular space in a moment, but really, um, wanting to use more tools to, to to really see and notice, you know, impact of not just like what, what's the re reach of the social post, or like how many people are active on the Backstage Pass today, but really like how I can figure out new tools to gauge that sort of response. And I learned a ton, again, from that TAO event of like engagement polls and, and open office hours Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> and creating that like psychological safety for people to like come forward with those kinds of words, um, and questions, but also how can that be garnered in, um, other tech ways. The other thing I wanted to share is, uh, over the summer, I went to a Moth story slam here in Portland, and it was during Pride Month. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. And so it was, you know, pride story slam, and there was this elder woman who shared her story about, you know, the work that we do from an equity standpoint overall. And that really, like, it might not feel like we do a lot in the day to day or the week to week or the month to month, but in her perspective of somebody who was a young, queer teenager during the Stonewall riots, and then to now be on a stage in a room full of fully supporting and family, you know, queer family Yeah. Made her very aware of how much progress we've made. And, and I was so grateful to hear her say that because I feel like in so many spaces it might just feel like we're just moving the needle a hair. Yeah. Right? Yeah. But if that, if I, if I move the needle a hair, and if you do, and if Cobre does, and if Hazel does, and if you know what I mean, then it's like, yeah, okay, so that's like a full head of hair. We move forward <laugh>, right? <laugh>, and that's just at PDXWIT, you know? And so just having that consideration I think is, is really helpful. It has been for me.
AN:
Yeah. That's amazing. I, that that story really just like warms my heart, and I'm sure it's very rewarding, and I'm glad that people reach out to you because it is such great work that, that you're doing and that folks in that space are, are doing. Um, what are some, like, I guess when we talk about a city like Portland, who, which is not very diverse to begin with, just in like the, the demographic. Like what are some concrete steps or strategies that you believe are crucial for achieving a greater, like diversity and inclusion, especially within the tech sector, when a lot of the folks that are living in that city are, it's, it's not a very diverse city to begin with. Um, just curious to hear your thoughts on that.
RK:
Yeah, yeah, for sure. Um, I think the, the most important thing, right? Is where resources are and who are the perceived gatekeepers that those folks are very welcoming with their resources. And I'll give Upstart Collective as an example here. So this is a coworking space in the, um, southeast industrial corridor of Portland. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> and I, I found this space by way of going to a panel that House Representative Bynum and Senator Wyden were speaking at a couple months ago. And, you know, ever the political junkie, uh, PoliSci undergrad, I was like, Ooh, I'm going to that. And then noticed that the space was like, really cool, and there's like a podcast studio and there's this and there's that. And I was like, oh, how much is a desk here? And I was at the time, shopping around and the desk is like, for the market value, relatively inexpensive. I was like, okay, noted. But it's also, uh, you know, like most of tech, it's primarily white cis guys. And I was like, I'm not sure how I'll feel there, right? Yeah. But when I looked around at the different resources that this space had and vibed out on, on who worked here and how welcome they were of me as like, you know, little queer Jewish lady, like coming through that's like, we need a matriarchy. They were like, yeah, for sure. For sure we do. And I even talked with the co-founders and I was like, guys, gentlemen, sirs, what, um, how do you feel about this being a, a bit more diverse and inclusive? And yes, Portland is not the most diverse place, but I will say it generally has humanity at its forefront. I know we've got a whole housing crisis and a bunch of other human issues we've gotta tend to, but there are big hearted people here. And both of the co the co-founders of the space said, yeah, we have a lot of resources here. It's just we don't know exactly the right words to say come through. And I said, well, I do. May I please Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. And so I just feel like part of it is like the advocacy piece is like, so if you have resources, do you know how to share? Right? And if you know how to share, please share. If you don't know how to share, kindergarten is a great place to revisit <laugh>, right? Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. But also, right. Um, AJ McCreary, uh, Equitable Giving Circle is her project. She was on our podcast panel a couple weeks ago here, and she talks a lot about reparations and she talks about it from a basic idea of sharing, right? Mm-Hmm. And I loved it that AJ was available to be on the panel. The guys at first had asked me to be on the panel, and I said, yeah, I'll do it, but I won't do it unless there's somebody else that has a different skin tone than the rest of us and is, you know, not us, this white guy. And they both, both Josh and Mark were like, absolutely 100%. You know? And so it's one of these things that I feel like some people won't activate because they don't wanna make a mistake, perhaps. Like the more resource people are like, I don't wanna do it wrong, I don't wanna be canceled. Right? Yeah. I feel like my character generally, generally, but also as a startup, founder's like, fail fast, y'all. Like, let's just like muck it up and like get right. You know, like, Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, I don't know that I do the best or say the right things, but I know that my heart is good and I know that I'm here for a more equitable world for everyone. Right? And that's the flag I fly. And if I have resource to give, I share it. And then I find the resources when I don't have it. 'cause that's, I'm a scrappy, I'm a scrappy gal. Yeah. And that's like, y'all over here, come on. You know? And so I think, yeah, I, I implore people to, depending on what side of the extrovert scale they might be on, right? Is to like find where the resources are and see if you can share them more widely.
AN:
I, I really, really love that. And I, I thank you too for just going through like specific examples of, of where you've just like thrown out the idea or like giving somebody a resource. Because I think that's where I see a lot of folks feeling hesitant for whatever reason. And I think even in like the, the cancel culture world that we live in, people not wanting to misstep or do something wrong and that kind of holding them back from helping other people or spread the word about something that they're hearing. Um, I just feel like that's, that's so, so important to hear. And I, I even in like our PDXWIT community and like the channels and the Slack channels, um, I see folks where they're looking for someone, like a specific role to fill out their company and they're just kind like putting it in the PDXWIT channel for, for folks to like, you know, maybe that are interested to like go and visit the application or for like a ref referral or whatever. And I think that's like a great way, even if you're not extroverted, just to be like, Hey, we want, you know, like if you feel like you want to bring in more diversity into your company or like kind of just give other folks the opportunity and just wanna put that in there. I think that's like a great way to just like trade resources. It's like what it's about <laugh>.
RK:
Yeah. Absolutely. And if I can stack on that just one, one more ounce Anusha is right? Like Portland is a city of bridges. I don't know how many bridges there are here, but there's a lot. And I'll tell you <laugh> Yeah. I used to have a fear of bridges. It was like, I'm not scared of anything, but I had this like strange fear bridges from like my childhood.
When I got, I mean, there's just so funny, and when I got here I was like, okay, you need to get right with the bridges. 'cause like, you just need to get right. Like, you're not gonna like deep breathe over every bridge drive because that's like every road, right?
Yeah.
But also I think it's gorgeous that this city is full of bridges because we need to build them with each other, right? So like between PDXWIT and LBI, between LBI and TAO Tech Association Oregon. Yeah. Um, you know, the different spaces and places that serve different demographics of people. And I know it's so important, particularly in this world, to have safe space where people feel a hundred percent safe. I'm one of those chameleons that can like roll in and sniff it out. And as long as my, you know, my, uh, alarm systems aren't triggered, like, I'm like, okay, let me check this out and see if it's legit and I can invite my friends. But in that sense of like building bridges, right? I think that that is, that is like the key for us to have progress again, like definitely in Portland and for sure in the world as we get into this next election cycle Yeah. Is like, the more walls we put up, the more siloed we are, the less collaborative and solution oriented we become. Right. And that's not gonna be helpful <laugh>.
AN:
Absolutely. And and another thing that I, you know, talk to with, with folks in my, like my professional network is also how I know a lot of our listeners are either trying to break into the tech industry or already in the tech industry. And, and one thing that I always like to point out is that this industry is very much like when you're trying to look for a job, it's, it, there is a high level of like who you know and like what, like who you might've worked with before, really acting as that person who advocates for you if you want another role. And I think there is a barrier to entry in that kind of a process where folks who might not have an in or who don't know folks that are already working in the industry, it's harder to sometimes feel like you can break into to the industry. And I think this, this conversation and like what you're saying just around sharing resources, it, it really, it, it even kind of extends beyond just like, obviously wanting to create a more equitable and diverse like industry, but also wanting to really like spread that information so more people have access and information to be able to break into the industry as well. So just, you know, something I think about a lot <laugh>
RK:
For sure, knowledge is power, you know, and I think there is one of these, uh, political conversations I went to and just again, as a participant in the audience, and, and I don't know who, who exactly was that mentioned this, but somebody on the stage was like, oh yeah, there's like, there's this resource and this grant and this fund and like listed like, I don't know, you know, in a one minute monologue, like 5,000 different ways that you can get funding for your mission-based organization. And I was like, couldn't write fast enough. And someone, I was so glad that it, because I would've been the one to be like, you know, kind of the squeaky wheel, like what the heck? But someone was like, Hey man, like is this listed somewhere online? Like, could we like back to the Google doc? Like, is there somewhere where we could go and like find this out? And he's like, no, it's just all up here. Like, just call me. Right? And Okay. Yeah, sure. Okay. I I will, I will, sir. You know, but also like what if the internet was so easy to give information as much as it is to take our information? Like where people Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> just would never have to ask like, where do we find this? It's like, oh, well obviously there's like, you know, this huge resource. And the good thing is, is like humans are that resource and that's why we keep the humanizing of technology in mind, right?
AN:
Yeah, yeah. Totally <laugh>. Um, well I could like talk to you for a very, very long time and we could just keep this going. Same, but I <laugh>. Um, unfortunately we we're getting close to the end of our time and I have a couple of other questions just as we wrap the episode. Um, I'm curious to know what's next for, for you, what's next for LBI? Like what, um, what's coming up for you?
RK:
Yeah, thanks. I'll try to keep it concise. So I actually, even though it might not look like it online, I kind of took the LA this past year, 2023 off from full throttling, the startup that is LBI. Um, it's hard.
Yeah.
No, but because like my mental health was requiring it of me, right. And I really wanted to come back into alignment to what a good working tempo for me is in this new world, right? Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. Um, also I moved across the country, so, hi Portland, right? Yeah.
AN:
Yeah. Oh, you're new to Portland. Like you just moved here recently. Six
RK:
Six months new. I'm basically a newborn Portland.
AN:
I had no idea. Where are you coming from?
RK:
Well, my mother of course, but also <laugh>. I can't help it.
AN:
Sorry to cut you off, <laugh>.
RK:
No, all good, all good. Um, I'm from Chicago. I've tried to live there most of my life. I almost went to read 20 years ago. I came out to Portland, was like, I love this city. I'm going to this school. And then I was like, oh, I cannot afford this school. And so <laugh> <laugh>, it was like JK and I got some scholarships to go some other schools on the East Coast. Um, but anyways, without going back backwards going forward. Yeah. Yeah. Rose in Rose City, like, I'm just like, so in love with Portland amidst all of the, the turmoil that that is right now that gets the bad rap on the news. I have such big dreams with the city and, and seeing what everybody is doing here that is, that are the innovators. Like plugging into that innovation flow is like what I'm about. So Rose Kaz Creative is my consultant agency that I've been, you know, basically focusing on this last year in order to feed myself <laugh> and get the, the startup wheel spinning again in 2024. Um, I've just been lightly tapping LBI this year, but I just really needed to kind of get that balance back. And I, I think it's just so important, right? That if we have agency for ourselves to use it, and if we don't have agency for ourself, ask our friends that can help us get that agency or be our agent for a minute. I don't think the current structure is of the way the world is organized is, is set up for us to like be our own change agents. But like, I'm here to be a change agent for myself and for other people. So I had to get right with like actually doing it for myself <laugh>, so that as I do it for the world, it can like be supportive and, you know, tenable.
Yeah. And so that's, that's, uh, on the long term. And then just like in the, in the next, you know, we're wrapping up 2023 over here at Upstart. I'm, uh, doing the, a lot of social. So we do a first Friday, the first Friday of every month, we invite all of our fella innovators to come over. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. Um, it's from four to six every first Friday. And we then all go over to the Portland night market 'cause that's our neighbor and we love supporting Emma and what she's got going on. So really like, you know, as we come out of lockdown, like just the community that we are here in Portland and what we can build together is so inspiring to me.
AN:
That's amazing. And, and I'm also glad that you are taking that time to like really take care of yourself, fill your own cup before you can get back into it. And I'm sure we'll be keeping a very close eye on, on all the amazing things I'm sure that you'll, you'll be doing in this next year. Um, but as we close out our, our segment, I'm, um, you know, is there anything that you wanna leave our listeners with, whether it's advice, call to action, thoughts, really anything at all? Yeah.
RK:
Um, first and foremost, register to vote. We are an active population of, of the demos of democracy. And so our, our participation is required. <laugh>, our lives are political. Particularly PDXWIT listeners, right? Yeah. Um, I also invite you to listen to the podcast, Money, Sex and Politics. I feel like the season two is getting better and better. I can't wait for season three. If people are interested to be a guest or know somebody that is a thought leader and any of those topics just slide into my dms and, uh, you know, make sure to take time for yourself so that you can keep showing up for the world. You know, it's important for us to do that.
AN:
I love that. Um, thank you so much Rose, and we will, we will link your, your podcast for our listeners too, to listen into as well. Um, I just feel like our listeners are just gonna love this episode. So I really appreciate all of you, uh, taking the time to listen in. And also a huge shout out to our incredible podcast team, um, Cobre, Dee, Katie, um, Deana, Max, and Isabel. Your dedication to working on this podcast really makes it possible for us to really be able to bring these episodes to life. So thank you so much. Um, and thank you again to our listeners for tuning in. I mean so much. Um, and we will catch you again soon on our next episode.
RK:
Thank you.
Outro:
PDXWIT is a 501C3 nonprofit. We're building a better tech industry by creating access, dismantling inequities and feeling belonging. Find out more about us at www.PDXWIT.org. Like this podcast? Subscribe and review us on your favorite podcast platform. Wanna give us feedback? Contact us podcast@pdxwit.org to help us improve and ensure you learn and grow from the stories you hear on humanizing tech.