Kimberly Embry: Creativity

Kimberly Embry, program manager and entrepreneur, inspires us to apply for jobs we can grow into, recognize that every skill you gain helps shape your story, and how to get unstuck when you’re not feeling fulfilled.

Learn more about her path from nursing to tech through coding bootcamp, how her Filipino culture influenced her, and how she’s successfully found ways to weave creativity throughout her life. Then check out her amazing jewelry at Kasa Kasama!

Transcript

Intro: Welcome to humanizing tech. We interview people to dig below the surface of their achievements and challenges showcasing the story behind the story. We believe that focusing on the person and humanizing their lived experiences will help us shape the future of tech.

Humanizing tech is brought to you by Kiva. Kiva is an international nonprofit working to expand financial access to help underserved communities thrive. 100% of every dollar you lend on Kiva goes to funding loans.

By lending as little as $25. You can be part of the solution and make a real difference in someone's life. More than 80% of the borrowers Kiva serves around the world are women learn more@kiva.org. 

Dawn Mott: Hi everyone. Welcome back to the PDXWIT podcast. I have some exciting changes to share with you. First off, we are now Humanizing Tech. We set out to tell you great and inspiring stories about people in our community near and far. And we just thought we'd wanted a name that really expressed what we do. So here we are Humanizing Tech. Some new changes for us, the first big change is we have Jesselle Hedman with us today as my new co-host. And as our first guest, because we just can't say goodbye, we have Kimberly Embry. Former co-host of the PDXWIT podcast, and today, current amazing guest. 

Kimberly Embry: Hello. Hello everyone. Kimberly Embry (she/her).

Dawn: Oh, and I'm (she/her).

Jesselle Hedman: And I'm just Jesselle Hedman, (she/her) as well.

Dawn: Who you may remember from a past podcast, so Jesselle welcome, do you want to say some words?

Jesselle: Thank you so much for having me. No, I'm just really excited to be here. I'm very excited to get to chat with Kimberly today. As my conversation with both of you was definitely something that was a highlight of my year. So hopeful to keep that going, but very happy to be here.

Dawn: Yay. Well, Kimberly Embry, we have you here. Everyone knows you as a podcast host. I mean, honestly, let's be real, the better host, really you are. And I think you do so much other stuff in your daily life. And I think that you should tell us what you do when you're not being an amazing host and what you will do in the future. Where do you want to start? 

Kimberly: Oh my, where do I start? Hello. Hello everyone. It is great to be on Humanizing Tech, now as a guest. A little bit bitter sweet since we're coming back not being a host, but happy to still be involved and even more happy to have Jesselle here as a host. Jesselle is super amazing. So I'm really excited to be able to kick off the season with the two of you, but where do we want to start?

Jesselle: Tell us a bit about you, like how you got to being in the place that you currently are career wise, I guess.

Kimberly: Yeah. Okay. So maybe we can have a nice conversation through that. So Kimberly everyone. I will tell you, you know, the end of the story now, cause I'm that kind of person that wants to know, but I am a manager for an engineering team at VMware. And I have a jewelry business now and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. 

But so, how I got here? So actually, I went to school for nursing, funny enough. And it was kinda just put on me. I actually wanted to go to school for business. But nursing especially for people whose culture is rooted in Filipino culture, in the Philippines nursing and other medical roles are seen as really good. For financial stability and all these different things, it’s respectful.

So there's a lot of that rooted actually in Filipino culture. And it's actually how a lot of Filipino women were able to come to the States as nurses. So that's why it's, it continues to be embedded into our culture today. But so I say all of that because, I love you parents. Thank you. I know you wanted the best for me, but I went a different way. So, I finished nursing and I, you know, the deal was whatever, you know, finish school and you can do your thing. And so literally I did my thing, nursing school and I ended up, you know, from working at different retail spots, which I actually really enjoyed also doing some assistant work for like a lawyer slash entrepreneur. And then, so this happened for a while and, you know, traveling all of this stuff.

So I kinda just sailed in many different directions for a while. Until finally I wanted to open up a women's clothing store and that, like having my own line has been a dream of mine since I was a kid. I started thinking to myself do I really want to be essentially married to this city for however long? Right? Like having a brick and mortar, like I'm not going to be to, you know, take a job somewhere else or be able to travel, you know, really far any of those things I would have to stay. And I ended up having a conversation with someone who had recommended that I look into coding school. And so I looked into some coding programs, full-stack programs in San Francisco and landed on one called Dev Bootcamp. And so I really liked this program because one, it was, you know, one of the faster ones. So there's that. 

Also there was a lot built into it that was based on empathy and kindness and compassion. And that really attracted me. I had no kind of experience at all when it came to tech and yeah, so I did not, I did not know, but it was, again, it was an interesting challenge. And that is what appealed to me. It was just something that I had never experienced before where it kind of combined like learning a new language and math, you know, at the same time. So I really, really liked it, but so I got in thankfully and once and, and for some people like that, don't know, a bootcamp can actually be quite difficult to get into. So it takes quite a bit of work, but anyways and personal financial investment, because cannot take out a school loan, you typically have to have your own funds. It's hard to have your own jobs during that time as well, depending on how demanding the program is. 

So, all of the funds that I had for starting up this women's clothing store in Oakland, I use that to pay for this program and fund my life because of course, life is not, you know, cheap by any means. So yes, so I got in and once through this thing, and again, like there were, what was nice about it was, it was challenging, but there were also things like on-site therapy. So there was a therapist that was there and we could have at least, you know, one session a week and that was built into the tuition. We had yoga, which is kind of funny, but it was really nice actually to have some restorative yoga sessions, especially in a high stress environment.

And again, other things similar to ERGs [employee resource groups]. So, you know, student groups, student resource groups, that was also a big thing. And it was an extremely diverse set of people that work there as long as well as attended. So we had not only people from the States, but also from different countries, different ages, of course, a whole bunch of different things. So that was, I think it, it created this wonderful ideal situation for me. And it was built in a way where it felt like you were working at a startup. So obviously my first experience was quite nice and maybe a bit too ideal. But anyways, so it was helpful, but it was really tough. There was a week where I cried every single day. You know, I felt challenged in a way where I just didn't feel smart. You know, I was surrounded by exceptional people, who were also either new to web dev or not. Some were just like freshening up some skills or whatever. But so it was really challenging in a different way and I really enjoyed it. But during the program, I knew that I didn't want to be a software engineer, so I already knew. 

Jesselle: What, what made you know, that I'm curious can really, like, what, what did you know about doing the program that you were like, I don't, I don't think software engineering is what is for me.

Kimberly: Yeah. So one, I preferred the back-end. So that was interesting to me, and, you know, honestly I hate to say this, but even then I felt judged a lot based on the way that I looked. So based on the way that I dressed. 

Dawn: To pause and say Kimberly is beautiful and always looks classy and amazing, un-biased.

Jesselle: It's a less traditional look for a tradition for what you think of when you think of a software engineer and yeah, that stigma that you're kind of challenging.

Kimberly: Exactly. Yeah. And even there, right. Like, even though it was this really diverse community of people, I still had to experience a little bit of that. And even prior, you know, like even in, in other educational settings, it was the same. And so, knowing also that I preferred the back-end, right. That's another thing too. And I just didn't want to fight those kinds of battles. And I enjoyed it and I was good at it, but also I recognize that throughout the program, when you would have you know, not, not just like the, the final project or the touchstone, whatever you want to call it, but also like group projects, I ended up being more of a project lead. So I would still code and do all those things, but I ended up in those roles, I really, really liked that.

I really liked being able to talk to people and help people and make sure things are, you know, moving along and all of that stuff. But I, you know, at the time I still wasn't sure what that meant. So, I traveled again a little bit and moved to downtown Portland, right next to the square pioneer square. So like in the heart, like I'm downtown in Portland. So I did a little bit of online research and I landed on PDXWIT. And so I went to a couple of events and then also the job board, and one day I saw an internship role as a support engineer. And so I felt an internship role felt good because I don't have to fully commit, I can ease into the tech industry. Feel it out, see how I like it, see what, see how I like it and see, and figure out where would I fit in or what do I want to try and do? And support engineering felt like a good combination of, okay, cool. I can still get to be technical and all of that's not going to go to quote unquote waste, I suppose. But then I also get to couple that with people skills and, you know, all of these other things. And so that felt like a really good initial fit

Dawn: Sounds like a nurse for technical issues. 

Jesselle: I was just about to say that high empathy has been something that continuously comes back. And I think that's probably part of you, but also having like this formal training of like initially wanting to care for people. So naturally of course you want to help folks communicate and share ideas. So that's so cool.

Kimberly: I love that. I have never thought of it that way, but yes, that's so true. Yeah. And, and so I saw this job and I applied for it looked really cool. It was in walking distance from my place, all these things, and it was great. And funny enough, I find out that Megan [Bigelow] is the director of the team that I would be applying for. And so I was fangirling. Oh my gosh, when she interviewed me, I felt like such a nerd, but it's fine, whatever. And, and so I ended up getting the role and again, yes. Yeah. And it was great. It was really, really cool. I really enjoyed being in an environment where I got to learn so many new things, get to interact with people, get to turn those frowns upside down.

That is like truly the one thing that I love, like turning an upset customer into a happy customer. But yeah, I really enjoyed it, but over time you know, it was clear that there wasn't going to be an opportunity on the team. And then I also was kind of feeling like maybe I should try a different role in this company. Something a little bit more fast paced and competitive. So I ended up moving to the sales department. 

Dawn: Whoa. Yes. Scary. 

Kimberly: Oh dear. Yes. Okay. I'm a sales rep. So anyways, after like searching and, you know, looking at different kinds of roles and opportunities, I found one that really spoke to me and I felt like this was written for me. 

Dawn: How did you identify those things in yourself? Like in this process that you were telling us about? 

Kimberly: Yeah, maybe I didn't necessarily want to be the person diving into the tech. Maybe I didn't necessarily want to be the frontline of fixing or resolving some issue for a customer, but I want it to be involved somehow, but I really wanted to enable the folks that were doing that job or that are doing that job and be able to work in the background, you know, and make sure that all the cogs are going.

And I really liked that kind of work, like out of the spotlight kind of work. And so this posting said things like that. having a background in support or like technical support. So check the box off of that. And then also, having a bit of experience as well on the sales side. So again, it just felt like this unique combination of qualities that they were looking for, and I didn't meet every single one, but I sure as hell wasn't gonna let that stop me from applying. 

Dawn: Oh, yeah. Say that again. 

Kimberly: I sure as hell was not gonna let that stop me from applying, because if there is anything I have learned in this life, and what our current atmosphere shows us, is that you can apparently get a job that you're not qualified for. So, if someone that is extremely unqualified is unafraid of applying and gets the role, why should that stop me? And so it was that experience, which I'm sure is something that a lot of folks can relate to. You know, you might feel like you have all of these qualities they're looking for, but maybe not as much of the experience. Jesselle, I feel like you wanted to say something there.

Jesselle: I did want to say something about that, because as a recruiter and as someone who's occupied this HR space for so long, it's so often that seeing the job description as the point at which someone starts to feel imposter syndrome, because they don't know if they hit every single one of those qualifications. And one of my favorite statistics, it’s very general and it changes every year, but the general statistic is men will apply for a job if they meet 60% of the qualifications and women will often not apply for the job if they only meet 80% of the qualifications. So there's an initial disparity. When we start talking about feeling like a job description matches you. And so my recommendation, similar to Dawn asking you to repeat it again, is put your application in. Put your application in. If you don't feel like you hit every single one of those marks that's good, because that means that role is going to challenge you and you're going to be able to grow in it and to be really successful in that space. And I think that's what you sensed in that job description was I might not perfectly have all of these skills, but I know I can do this. And I know this is exciting and interesting to me, and that is what should drive people to apply for jobs, period, in my opinion. So that we all have something that we're passionate about. Not based on if we match ourselves to a bullet point or not.

Dawn: So we give you permission right now, everyone just self has given you permission, go ahead and apply for that job. You weren't going to do it now. You're thinking maybe you should. Pause this podcast, apply for the job, come back. Kimberly will still be here. 

Kimberly: Yeah. Like that's so true, right? Like why, why not apply? To be honest, when I applied for the internship role, I felt like I was overqualified, but I still had the opportunity. And so even in those cases, I feel like sometimes you have to make a case for yourself, like, oh, you're too qualified for this. Why do you want it? But again, if you want something and you feel like you can do well at it and be challenged in it, and be able to really make an impact and meaningful contributions to not just to accompany and the bottom line of the business, but an emotional impact on those that are around you convey it. Go for it.

Why should that stop you? I mean, the worst that's going to happen is they're going to say no. And maybe, you know, I can say that now, because in sales you get a lot of nos, so it’s built-in now. But for sure, that is like the worst that's going to happen. And even if you get to know what ends up happening through these applications, especially if you use them as an opportunity you get to fine tune your voice, you get to fine tune your story, you get to fine tune your ability to interview. Even applying is an art, even being able to write, a really good cover story. And that is not only expressive of who you are and, but what you would like to offer or can offer, but also shows like interest in the company. Tailoring making those tiny little adjustments to your resume, to match the role that you're applying for. So all of these things, like it really builds that skill set because it absolutely is a skillset. 

So, I found this role and I applied for it. So, part of the interview was you had to make a like 20, at least like 20 minutes like PowerPoint presentation on yourself. And so like your background or all those things, what you wanted to do at the company, why you were interested. So that was unique because I've never had to do that. But I really liked it because that gave me an opportunity to craft my own story. And now I have this nice little presentation that I can adapt to, should I ever want to interview again or whatever, but also just continue to adapt and remind myself of what my story is, because a lot of times you can forget that.

Jesselle: Absolutely it can, it can ground you knowing where you came from and where you're going.

Kimberly: Yes, yes, exactly. Like you have this really cool marker and this capture of this snapshot of time of where you were in life and what you were able to do, and then see, like, is that still true today? And also, how has that changed? And it's just so incredible to have that. 

But so anyways, I ended up getting the role. And so the role was for a, my current role, which is I'm a program manager. So, now I'm not technical myself. I work with extremely talented engineers that are reliability engineers and also experts in Kubernetes. I know zilch about Kubernetes, but it is nice to have a little bit of aptitude, or a little bit of understanding, especially when they're creating certain software features or product features or open-source features.

So I can at least speak the lingo a little bit. I’m much more involved in making sure that our role as a team is being fulfilled. Removing those blockers for people, making things easier for people for both the team I’m on, those wonderful folks, and to our customers. So it was challenging. It is still challenging. Don't get me wrong, but totally challenging in a completely different kind of way. Went from having to turn frowns upside down for customers to almost having to hold people accountable and having to hold yourself accountable. It’s tough a lot of days, or it can't be tough. Especially after being cooped up inside for a long time [with Covid-19] and it can be tough to like self-start and be self-sufficient and again, to hold yourself really accountable because you do have to be a good example and a leader in that sense. But then also to inspire folks to continue to improve.

Jesselle: Absolutely. And that in itself sounds like kind of your new, your newest kind of journey. How do you feel like this has maybe fulfilled some things that you were missing in previous roles in terms of, yourself feeling like when you leave work, you don't need to necessarily have a passion project to do, although you do which I want to get to talk about as well.

Kimberly: Yeah. It really, it almost felt like day and night. Sorry if I cry, I'm a crier. When you're in a role and you feel stuck for whatever reason, and I recognize the privilege that I had in my stuckness, wasn't based on really real dependencies, but more of this intrinsic kind of, I want to do something different. This feels against my core. I want to do something else. It doesn't feel totally fulfilling. And that was the challenge there. To exercise everything that I learned, or maybe not exercise at all, but be able to utilize it and adapt it in the way that I need to be successful in different kinds of roles. To also finally being able to contribute in a way that you feel like people did not believe that you could contribute.

I think that was the really big thing for me. And maybe they did believe it, but they just didn't want to accept it. I don't care. To finally come out of it, feeling like someone believes in you, someone believes in me, and I believe in me, and I feel like I can do a really good job at this. And finally being able to contribute in that kind of way and be challenged in a different kind of way in a way that I wanted, even though it is tough sometimes.Getting that fulfillment from helping other people and not just helping other people, but what I've realized and should have realized a long time ago, being able to create. Now I have an opportunity to say, there’s a gap here, so let's create something entirely new to fulfill that gap, or let's try something new, even if it doesn't work out. So, now I have all this room to create or adapt or improve on things. And that is, those thoughts, are constant thoughts in my brain for everything around me. And so now I get to be paid to do that. And that's freaking awesome.

Jesselle: That's huge. I'm so happy to hear that. So that actually segues perfectly, while you get to have that creative energy in your work that has translated into being able to have some really strong creative energy outside of your traditional work scope. Would you like to share a bit about that? I'd love to hear a bit about how that came to be.

Kimberly: One of my friends made a comment on my Instagram, like nice earrings. I was like, earrings. Interesting. Not made those earrings that I was wearing, but I was oh, yeah, yeah, yeah earrings. When she said earrings, it started off like the cause of my brain, what am I going to do with earrings? And also what kind of story do I want to tell here? So you know, I'm Filipino and moving here, I miss that community a lot.  I have slowly felt like that part of my identity has been going away because I'm not surrounded by it anymore. I started reading about history so I could start to feel connected, not just through cooking or other things like that, but trying to invest in gaining some knowledge and, I came across that the national gemstone of the Philippines is the Pearl.

And I was like, Oh, pearls. Okay. And also though growing up, my aunt always gave me pearls whenever there was some kind of celebration as a gift and she would design them herself, make them herself and give them to me. 

Jesselle: Incredible. 

Kimberly: And also when I was a kid there, my dad gave me this book about a dad and his daughter and he would go on work trips a lot and he got her Pearl necklace. 

Jesselle: I had the same book!

Kimberly: Yes! And so all of these thoughts were running in my brain when I read that. And it immediately felt this was a way for me to reconnect with a part of my identity that I feel like I haven't been really connected with and I miss that so much. And then also like familial connections and then my creativity,

Jesselle: I realized we didn't ask, we didn't get you to say, what's the name of your business?

Kimberly: Yes! So the name of the business it's called Kasa Kasama. And so it means friendship house or house of friends. And so really like a collection of friends.

Jesselle: I love this so much. Thank you so much for sharing your story, Kimberly. This has been so fantastic.

Kimberly: Yes thank you and Dawn, I love you. It was great being a host with you and to the community, thank you for putting up with me for this past year. It has been a sincere privilege to be able to talk with so many of you. Again, this also feels full circle with someone that I was able to connect with last year, Jesselle, coming here and now being a host. So I appreciate it.

Dawn: Yay. Well, thanks max for doing our audio from afar. Thanks April for setting everything up. Thanks PDXWIT for giving us the platform. Thanks community, because if no one listened, if you really weird, if we just kept talking to ourselves but you know, we're doing wonderful is our thing. So thank you, everyone goodbye, come back!

Jesselle: Haha, love it. 

Outro: PDXWIT is a nonprofit with the purpose of encouraging women non-binary and underrepresented people to join tech and supporting and empowering them. So they stay in tech. Find out more about us at www.pdxwit.org. Like this podcast subscribe and like us on your favorite podcast platform. Want to give us feedback? Contact us at podcast@pdxwit.org to help us improve and ensure you learn and grow in the stories you hear on Humanizing Tech.